Finished Owen Meany

I finished Owen Meany this morning. I liked it -- again. It'll be interesting to hear everyone's comments. I wonder if others will see parallels to the Iraq war. I wonder what else they'll see and talk about.

How could I have forgotten? (spoiler)

Wow, how could I have forgotten? Owen cuts John's finger off!! I barely even remembered that Owen died so I guess it's not that astonishing. But what a detail to forget.

Anyway, I'm still very much enjoying the book. I'm curious how this thing with Owen's dream is going to turn out. Owen just said that John is in the dream. At first I thought that maybe Owen would die in Arizona, but it doesn't look like it. No palm trees, as Owen says.

It's interesting to read what John says about the Viet Nam war and compare that to the Iraq war now. I know some people don't want to draw those parallels but it's pretty hard not to.

At one point Owen says that without the draft no one would care about the Viet Nam war. But here we are without a draft and people do care. But it's true there aren't a bunch of young people leading protests the way they were in the sixties.

I'm enjoying A Prayer for Owen Meany. Some parts are so funny. I'd forgotten that. In one part where Dan Needham comes to the house and meets the family, I laughed out loud. It tells how the adults all go into the living room, which is full of antique furniture "which my grandmother was preserving, for historical reasons, sitting in them was not good for them....and so a guest, his or her knees already bending in the act of sitting down, would suddenly snap to attention as my grandmother shouted, 'Oh, for goodness sake, not there! You can't sit there!'" Dan Needham is tall and has a "sizeable bottom" so even fewer seats were available to him, plus the maid Lydia in a wheelchair blocks the way here and there. It says, "And so the living room was a scene of idiocy and confusion,..." I loved that "idiocy and confusion". It reminded me of some of Barbara Pym's remarks about her character's "wild" thoughts. And the scene where Owen is in the mother's bed and the grandmother comes in, all wet, and Owen screams. That's another one that makes me laugh out loud.

There's a LOT of foreshadowing in this book. If any English teacher ever wanted examples of foreshadowing for their students, they could find one on almost every other page.

I'm enjoying it and knew I had liked it last time I read it. So far I'm not sure why it would be considered something that changes your thoughts. But perhaps that is yet to come.

Been a while since I've blogged. We went on a vacation plus I had to order the next book and just received it.

I picked up one book that was on the "also ran" list from the club, The Memory Keeper's Daughter by Kim Edwards. It was pretty good but I don't know yet if it would make my personal significant books list. In the story a woman has twins, a boy and a girl, and the girl is born with Down's Syndrome. Her husband gives away their daughter and tells his wife that the baby died. It changes their relationship forever.

Anyway, our next book is A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving. I thought I owned it because I read it with my other book club, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I ordered it and just got it yesterday. I read the intro. John Irving talks about how much he likes the book's first line. I can't recall it just now and I'm feeling too lazy to get up and get the book. My favorite first line of a book is "Life is difficult", from The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck. That book would probably make my significant book list.

I don't know why I thought of this now but I remembered another book, Shantung Compound by Langdon Bilkey, that would probably make my list, too. That would make my mother happy. She recommended that book to all of us. In fact, I think she bought the book for us. It's been a long time since I've read it but I think I'll read it again soon.

Well, not much on our chosen book but I don't actually remember many details at all about A Prayer for Owen Meany. I just remember I liked it. I'm looking forward to reading it again.

The first meeting

Well, our first meeting happened this weekend and it was terrific! I should have taken some notes to remember some of the things we discussed. Next time.

The discussion just flowed. I started out by talking about logistics type things, such as did we want to meet on Saturday nights, was the time a good time, planning on once a month, deciding the next date at each meeting, and the "agenda" of prayer, then discussing the book, then dessert & coffee which would be the signal to talk about our next book and vote. After that "business" I said, "So, what did you think of the book?" And that was all it took. We talked and talked.

A couple people remarked that The Last Battle was their least favorite of the series, that they thought it seemed a little didactic or that Lewis was trying to tie everything together in a not so good way. I was kind of surprised at first because I think it's such a good book. I could see their points, though, as we talked. I guess it's just that there are some passages that are so very meaningful to me, even though what they say may be true.

I had made a bunch of food but no one wanted it! I had said I'd have snacks so everyone ate right before they came. Oops. Not a problem, though, we just had some leftovers. And people did have the dessert and coffee.

We decided to read A Prayer for Owen Meany as our next book. I read that some years ago with my other book club and we all enjoyed it. I don't see it in my library, though, so I'll have to buy it. It was tough to decide. People had lots of good choices.

So, I'll write more when I get started.

Narnia, the movie

I thought I'd talk a little about the Narnia movies. So far it's just been The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, but others are coming.


When I first heard that Hollywood was making a movie of The Lord of the Rings I was extremely skeptical. In fact, I said something along the lines of, "Oh, no. They'll ruin it! Now no one will know how great the books are!" And I was wrong. Peter Jackson did a great job.



So, after that, when I heard they were making a movie of the Chronicles. I withheld judgment. It turned out the first movie was quite good. I wish it could have been more true to the book. They took some liberties. But they did seem to stay true to the spirit of the book, pretty much. I enjoyed the movie very much. I wished it could have been longer. I wanted to keep going. So I'm looking forward to the next one.


I like this picture of Aslan with Edmund. I wondered how the movie Aslan would look. They did a good job with that, too. He looked like a lion, not a cartoon. People who know me know I like cows. I've liked them for years. But lately I've been thinking I might start to collect lions the way I do cows, because of Aslan.


This picture of Edmund and Aslan seems like a good depiction of several times in the Chronicles books where characters meet Aslan and feel unworthy or ashamed. Aslan's response is grave, understanding and loving. It makes me feel like I think I'll feel when I face God.

The really memorable stuff

So, I finished the first book and then re-read The Last Battle. Some parts of this book I think of very often.

One part is where the dwarves are in the new world, or at least they're in the other side of the door to the Stable. I wrote about that already earlier. This makes me think of The Screwtape Letters, also by C.S. Lewis. It's been a long time since I've read that but I believe it, too, portrays a kind of "hell" that is a separation from God, not the eternal burning and torture that is so often used.

I know some would consider it heretical, but I just have a hard time thinking that all the people in the world who don't believe in Christ will be tortured and burn in hell for eternity.

Then the other part I often remember I also wrote about earlier, where the soldier serving Tash is accepted by Aslan. Here is a (rather long) quote; the soldier is speaking about his meeting with Aslan in the new world:

But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son, thou art welcome. But I said, Alas, Lord, I am no son of Thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me. Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one? The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said. It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him, for I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore, if any many swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him... I said, Lord, thou knowest how much I understand. But I said also (for the truth constrained me), Yes, I have been seeking Tash all my days. Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek.

I love that. I love it the thought that God takes for his own those who worship him but don't know it. Who knows if it's right -- how can we know until we get to heaven? -- but I like to think that many people who are worshiping other gods are worshiping the one God but don't know it. There are so many good people who truly believe in their own system of faith, whatever that is, and who serve mankind so well. How can it be that they will all be tortured and in agony for eternity? And thinking this doesn't mean you therefore think that all gods are the same.

Our church council read a book called A New Kind of Christian by Brian McLaren. McLaren quotes the same passage as I did. Before quoting it he writes:

Imagine that you have just died and passed through the doorway of death. And you enter heaven. And it is a place of intense brightness, a place fragrant with goodness, a place alive with love... [lengthy description of a wonderful, perfect place]. OK, do you have that picture? Think about how you sould feel upon entering that place.

OK. Now I want you to imagine that someone has walked beside you through that doorway of death. And that person has lived his life cramped in hatred and fear, tight in guilt and greed, ingrown in lust and selfishness. He has spent every day of his life complaining and being bitter and blaming others and being ungrateful... an expert at lying and cheating... proud, arrogant, unwilling to admit he is wrong... These aren't just the behaviors he has practiced, these are the features of the person he has become. Now, how would that person feel?

Could it be that the very light that seems beautiful to you would seem blinding to him? Could the very warmth of the love of that place that to is so perfect seem to him horrible? Could the acceptance and love and trust and openness that welcome you seem to him disgusting, weak, terrifying, insipid, or repulsive? Sometimes I wonder if we have it all wrong. Maybe it's not that there are two places beyond the door of death, heaven and hell. Sometimes I wonder if hell is just what heaven feels like for those who haven't learned in this life what this life is intended to teach. I believe with all my heart that God is not willing for even one person to miss out on the joys and glories of heaven. I believe with all my heart if there is any way for individuals to be rescued from their wrong choices in this life, I believe they will be rescued and redeemed...

But, I must tell you, I don't think we are ever in a position to judge others. After all, Jesus said that many who are seen as last here will be first there, and many who are first here will be last there. So I don't think it's our business to prognosticate the eternal destines of anyone else, as a story from C.S. Lewis makes clear.

And he goes on with the passage from the soldier.

There's also Puzzle the donkey, who impersonates Aslan and sins greviously. Even though he's persuaded to do it by the Ape, his actions cause suffering and death for many. On the other side of the door, Puzzle is ashamed of what he's done, and afraid to meet Aslan. When he does meet Aslon, Puzzle is "the very first person whom Aslan called to him", and Aslan whispers to him. We don't know what words he said but you see that Aslan is restored and forgiven. I love that, too. He's forgiven after death.

Re-reading The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe

So I started reading the first book. One passage with the kids and the beavers is a good example of the way Aslan is portrayed as someone you fear yet desire.

"Then he isn't safe?" said Lucy.
"Safe?" said Mr. Beaver. "...Who said anything about safe? 'Course he isn't safe. But he's good..."
"I'm longing to see him," said Peter, "even if I do feel frightened when it comes to the point."

I like the friendly tone of Lewis' writing, too. I enjoy authors who "talk" to the reader. I suppose it could be done badly but I like it when Lewis does it.

It's interesting that these books and another series I love, The Lord of the Rings, have quite a bit of violence and killing. I just read the part about Peter using his sword for the first time, killing the wolf. In Lewis' science fiction book Perelandra Ransom, the main character, realizes that he has to kill the bad guy (can't remember his name). He fights the bad guy several times and wounds him, but slowly he realizes it will never end unless he actually kills him. I think that might be a reference to killing sin in your life, being dead to your old self.

More re-reading to go.

Chronicles Thoughts

I thought tonight I'd write some thoughts about the Chronicles books before I re-read them for the book club meeting. I forget a LOT; it's one of the reasons re-reading is so enjoyable to me. But since this book club is about memorable books, I decided to write some of the things I remember.

I wrote already in an older blog about the way it helps me to think of Aslan to get the feeling of closeness and friendship combined with the awesome-ness of God. Another memory of Aslan that I like is where Lucy floats on Aslan's breath. I can't remember what book it was in but Aslan gets Lucy to a different place by lifting her with his breath. She is able to lie back and float on the current. I like the imagery -- floating on God's breath the way you float on water, the way you float on God's love, the way God's love supports you, lifts you up, moves you.

I love the lamppost in Chronicles. My friends Luke & Jan Seerveld have a lamppost in their front yard. I'd like to have one in mine someday. It's just cool.

Some of my favorite memories of the Chronicles are the scenes in The Last Battle. I think often of the soldier who worshiped "Tash" (Was that the other god's name? Can't remember that either, pathetic) and Aslan forgave him after he came to the new world. Aslan said something about how the soldier was somehow mistaken in the god he served; he was actually worshiping Aslan.

Another scene from The Last Battle that often comes to my mind is the part where a bunch of people ended up in a circle not seeing the beauty around them, and eating the food in the new world but thinking it tasted like straw or something bad. This is kind of the "hell" they're in, where they're not able to be with Aslan, to enjoy the new world. But they're not gnashing their teeth writhing in fire and brimstone for eternity.

Lots of small thoughts or images come to mind. I love the tender friendship between Tumnus and Lucy. I often wondered what Turkish Delight was and only saw it for the first time around a year ago. It's kind of like a soft jelly bean in a square shape covered with powdered sugar. When we played "freeze tag" when I was a kid it made me think of all the statues in the queen's palace. I like the story of creation in one of the books where for a certain period of time while the earth was new, everything that fell in the ground grew. So some coins grew into a kind of "money tree" with fruit that looked kind of coin-like. I often think of that when I hear the song "Morning Has Broken".

I like the image of going to heaven and meeting a God like Aslan. I know I'll be ashamed of the many things I've done or not done that were wrong but I imagine God seeing my heart, forgiving me and loving me anyway. In the books he sometimes licks a person with his rough tongue. I hate it when a dog licks me but I like the image the way Lewis writes it. And I think in at least one instance Aslan puts his forehead against a character's forehead. That's such a loving gesture. I do it sometimes with my kids.

So, those are some thoughts.

The Significant Books Club Begins!

So, it's been a LONG time since I've blogged. Didn't work out quite so well as I'd hoped. But my sister Jan had a good idea. She suggested I blog about the books I'm doing with my new book club. I decided to do that, and to also just blog about the group itself.

When our church's minister, Brad Smith, said that the church was going to start an effort to begin small groups, I talked to him about the thinking I'd done regarding starting a book club. As I said at the beginning of this blog, I'd been thinking for quite some time that it'd be fun to have a book club where we discussed books that had changed peoples' thinking or maybe even their lives. I asked if that would "count" as a small group. He welcomed the idea and I decided to go for it.

One of the things I'd kind of struggled with, and a reason I'd hesitated to begin the book club, was because I wasn't sure if I should just ask people at church, or perhaps friends, or if I should try to use it as some kind of outreach. Finally, I decided that it was fine to invite the church members as a part of the small group effort and just see how it goes. I hope it'll grow.

I was very happy at the response. 10 people signed up! One more is thinking about it. It's terrific. I'm really looking forward to beginning. I created a Google group for our club (no surprise!) and for lack of anything better I called it "Significant Books Club". I didn't want to call it "Special" and it was too long to call it Books-That-Changed-My-Life-Or-Thinking-Or-At-Least-Challenged-My-Thinking. :)

Our first meeting is scheduled for March 15th. A couple people can't make it but I'm sure we'll still have a good time. If it's a small enough group, we can meet in our library, the great previous bedroom that Randy made into such a beautiful little library.

For our first book, I chose two, the first and last books of The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. It'll be fun to hear what others choose as books that have affected them. Can't wait to start!

Books that have made a difference to me

I've started thinking about what books have made a difference to me, and why. I think it'd be interesting to start a book club with the first theme of having people nominate books that have made a difference to them. I'd like to read what others have found, and to hear why they made a difference.

So here's a beginning to my list. I'll add to it as I remember more.

C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia and science fiction trilogy
Jane Goodall's Reason for Hope

The C.S. Lewis books have (maybe this is sacreligious) almost made more difference to me than the Bible. What they've done is helped to feel I understand beliefs that really aren't understandable.

Here's an example. Today our minister talked about God's holiness. He's doing a series on the Lord's Prayer. He talked about the paradox of addressing God as "Abba", almost like Daddy, the intimate name for our Father, and the awesomeness of God's holiness. How can we have both that intimacy and awe? For me, Aslan helps. Susan and Mary slept with Aslan when he was lying on the stone table. They lay on his warm, soft fur. They also rode him. Very intimate. But yet there's no lessening of his awesomeness, of the almost fear they feel toward Aslan, too.

Over and over again I find myself relating things to what I've read in C.S. Lewis' books when thinking or hearing about hard to understand beliefs. Last night I was talking with friends about how we imagine heaven. I said that Perelandra helps me with that. I like to imagine heaven as a place like Perelandra, in that it's a beautiful, exciting place where you feel completely satiated and content, and happy. Maybe it won't be a world of water and islands, maybe it'll be very different than that -- probably. But the book has made me feel like I have a small understanding of heaven.

Jane Goodall's book is a more recent read. Jane is like a hero to me. The main thing that's made a difference to me with her book Reason for Hope is the idea she presents that there is reason for hope because of people who do good in spite of so much evil and hopelessness. In the book she writes about a country in civil war. I can't remember what country it was actually, maybe Serbia. There was a woman on one side who had a baby and because of the war there was no milk for the baby. A man on the other side had a cow and every morning he put a bottle of milk on that mother's front step. He got no recognition or reward for it, in fact when she saw him later he was very poor and suffering from the war still.

This act of good in the midst of war is an example of a reason for hope. Often the news can totally depress me. In fact when I read this book I was in a down time because of 9-11 coming on top of some tough times for us with our son that were making me feel like there wasn't much to be happy about. But I realize that it's true that individuals do good things even in horrible times, and there is some reason for hope.

I saw Jane on a t.v. special and she said, "I have a mission...to give people reason for hope."

Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller

This book has the subtitle "Nonreligious Thoughts on Christian Spirituality". My friend Sally B. recommended it to me and she said it was similar to Anne Lamott's book, Traveling Mercies. It is and the author even credits Anne Lamott with starting that type of writing -- a sort of Christian essay. I thought it was a little less hilarious than Anne Lamott's but still quite humorous and very thought provoking.

Going back to a book I read before feels like an assignment so I'm not going to go into this book in detail, but I'll write about a few things that stuck in my mind.

One is the way he talks about the need to ask for forgiveness when you become a Christian. That sounds so fundamentalist to me. (And Donald Miller is far from fundamentalist; he's very liberal in fact.) Often I've talked with people who say that they try to be a good person and they don't feel a need to be a part of any kind of religion in order to do that. I can see their point. When I know the people saying it, I know they ARE good people. And that counts for a lot.

So it was interesting to read some of what he said. In a conversation with a friend he wrote:
Miller: "I mean the idea that you want to confess. I think that God is wanting a relationship with you and that starts by confessing directly to Him. He is offering forgiveness."
Laura: "You are not making this easy, Don. I don't exactly believe I need a God to forgive me of anything."
Miller: "I know. But that is what I believe is happening. Perhaps you can see it as an act of social justice. The entire world is falling apart because nobody will admit they are wrong. But by asking God to forgive you, you are willing to own your own crap."

Then in another part he writes about how he and a bunch of his Christian friends decide to put up a confessional booth in Reeds College in Portland, where he lives. I never heard of Reeds College but I guess it's a very liberal college. Miller and his friends put up this booth on some festival type of night. But the booth was for Miller and his friends to confess to the people -- not the other way around. He writes about the first "customer" to whom he confessed. When the guy asked what he was confessing Miller said:
"There's a lot. I will keep it short. Jesus said to feed the poor and to heal the sick. I have never done very much about that. Jesus said to love those who persecute me. I tend to lash out, especially if I feel threatened, you know, if my ego gets threatened. Jesus did not mix His spirituality with politics. I grew up doing that. It got in the way of the central message of Christ. I know that was wrong, and I know that a lot of people will not listen to the words of Christ because people like me, who know Him, carry our own agendas into the conversation rather than just relaying the message Christ wanted to get across. There's a lot more, you know." And then he says, "I'm sorry for all of that" and the other guy forgives him.

I'm not doing a good job of conveying the humour and easy-readingness and enjoyment you can get from the book. But this stuff about needing to ask for forgiveness stuck with me.

Also, it made me think about church and what we want to say as a church. Miller writes about church turning him off because it seemed like there were all these things you were supposed to believe that had little to do with Jesus, even sometimes that you felt like you had to be a Republican and there were other rules you had to follow. He wrote:

"Here are the things I didn't like about the churches I went to. First: I felt like people were trying to sell me Jesus. I was a salesman for a while, and we were taught that you are supposed to point out all the benefits of a product when you are selling it. That is how I felt about some of the preachers I heard speak. They were always pointing out the benefits of Christian faith. That rubbed me wrong....I wish they would just tell it to me straight rather than trying to sell me on everything. I felt like I got bombarded with commercials all week and then went to church and got even more.
"And yet another thing about the churches I went to: They seemed to be parrots for the Republican Party. Do we have to toe the party line on every single issue?...I didn't think that Juesus really agreed with a lot of the policies of the Republican Party or for that matter the Democratic Party. I felt like Jesus was a religious figure, not a political figure.
"Only one more thing that bugged me, then I will shut up about it. War metaphor. The churches I attended would embrace war metaphor. They would talk about how we are in a battle, and I agreed with them, only they wouldn't clarify that we were battling poverty and hate and injustice and pride and the powers of darkness. They left us thinking that our war was against liberals and homosexuals..."

Again, just trying to make religion about Jesus as a religious figure sounds sort of simplistic. But learning more and more about Jesus can still actually be very scholarly. It's intriguing to me to think about being a Christian means knowing Jesus. Sounds stupid, huh? Of course I already knew that.

Then he writes about a church he became a part of that started out with just around 10 people trying to be a church in the city of Portland, not in the suburbs. They don't grow much at first. Then the minister asks them if they feel convicted about loving people who were very different from themselves, living "missional lives", intentionally befriending people who are different from themselves. And not befriending them in order to get them to come to church, just to love them. And he writes, "So we started praying every week that God would teach us to live missional lives, to notice people who needed to be loved."

The book Nickel & Dimed made me think about noticing people who are often invisible -- people who clean airports, take out the trash in buildings, janitors, clerks in stores, people who you often don't even stop to think of as real people. And that made me try harder to think of others who I find it difficult to think of as real people, like people in far away countries I might never have heard of before. When I hear the news about people being shot or killed or hurt way out there it hardly feels real. So I try harder to remember how real it is. I think often of the time I totalled my car on the way to work. As I stood on the highway waiting for a tow truck I thought about the fact that there might be a newscaster saying there'd been a solo spinout near the 280 exit on Highway 85, and that would be me. And this was a big deal to me. It was quite traumatic spinning across the highway and now I had to deal with insurance and replacing the car and on and on. So these little news blips are real people having real things happen in their real lives.

Anyway, now Miller writes about loving people who need to be loved, who are different from us. To be honest, I usually secretly wonder what's so bad about having your circle of friends and just sticking to that? It's hard enough to stay close to that circle. Think of all the time involved in broadening it. It makes me tired to think of it.

I don't know what this means to me, really. How do I love people different from me? What should I do?

Then one other thing that stuck with me about this book was his chapter called "Community" where he writes about moving from an apartment on his own into a house with 5 other guys in it. He's a writer and likes being alone but his minister encourages him to move into a community and tells him it's not good for him to be alone. He writes "I was a serious recluse before I moved in with the guys...When you live on your own for years, you begin to think the world belongs to you. You begin to think all space is your space and all time is your time.
"It is like in that move About a Boy where Nick Hornsby's chief character, played by Hugh Grant, believes that life is a play about himself, and that all other characters are only acting minor roles in a story that centers around him...
"Living in a community made me realize one of my faults: I was addicted to myself. All I thought about was myself. The only thing I really cared about was myself. I had very little concept of love, altruism, or sacrifice. I discovered that my mind is like a radio that picks up only one station, the one that plays me: K-DON, all Don, all the time...
"Having had my way for so long, I became defensive about what I perceived as encroachments on my rights. My personal bubble was huge. I couldn't have conversations that lasted more than ten minutes. I wanted efficiency in personal interaction, and while listening to one of my housemates talk, I wondered why they couldn't get to the point. What are you trying to tell me? I would think. Do we really have to stand here and make small talk?"

He goes on to explain how he makes things right with all of his roommates as he realizes that they are people and he could "sense God's love for them" and he had considered them a bother.

About blogging my reading

I'm a little intimidated about blogging my reading. I don't feel qualified, really. My only qualification is I love to read. I wasn't an English major and I don't feel as if I do that great a job seeing themes and meanings in what I read. I love to read what others write about books they've read and that's the most intimidating part of all -- they do such a much a greater job than I will. Also, recently my boss mentioned he's thinking of blogging his reading. Well, I had the idea before he told me that but still, now it'll seem like I'm copying his idea.

But here's what I decided. The main reason I want to blog my reading is for myself. I like to think through writing. When I write, it helps me think. So I look forward to thinking through what I'm getting from the books I read and being able to look back at that. Also, I forget what I read -- a lot. I don't actually mind it too much that I forget what I read because it makes re-reading a pleasure, but still, it'll be nice to look back and be reminded of what I've read.